Is Engagement Futile?: A Progressive and Libertarian Exchange On the Meaning of Liberty

I recently had an interesting and sad exchange with Eric Dondero, Publisher, www.libertarianrepublican.net after I published an earlier version of my critique of the Tea Party Principles (http://libertyandcapitalism.blogspot.com/2010/08/tea-party-manifesto-why-tea-party-has.html).

The exchange saddened me because I was hoping to engage in serious conversation across the divide that separates the progressives and libertarians on the question of liberty. I thought since I had studied and thought deeply about the question of liberty we could have a real conversation that might be of interest to a larger audience. The exchange illustrates the seriousness of the divide that separates us. The question is ultimately whether conversation is futile or whether the only way of addressing the deep disagreement is via civil war.

The exchange began when I posted an earlier version of my blog critiquing the Tea Party principles. Eric has kindly given me permission to reproduce our exchange on my blog.

The discussion began when I received the following email from Eric:
________________________________________
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From: Eric Dondero
To: "hsaccount@yahoo.com"
Sent: Tue, August 10, 2010 10:15:31 AM
Subject: Howard, Liberty is all about Individual Rights


Liberty has nothing to do with Collectivism in its various forms - Naziism, Communism, Fascism, Socialism, Welfare Statism. It is the exact opposite of these authoritarian ideologies. My gosh, you don't know the first thing about Liberty or Libertarianism. You are completely clueless.

Your article was almost a parody. It was so awful, I almost thought you were some conservative or libertarian posing as a liberal to help us to prove our point on the ignorance of the Left.

Please confirm for me that was a sincere piece, and not parody?

Thanks

Eric Dondero, Publisher
www.libertarianrepublican.net

If it was a true piece, would you mind if I reprinted it at LR to show how idiotic the beliefs of the Communist Left really are, for my readers? Thanks


My Reply:

From: Howard Schwartz
Subject: Re: Howard, Liberty is all about Individual Rights
To: "Eric Dondero"
Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 10:32 PM
Hi Eric,
Thanks for your email. I disagree with you profoundly as you can see. There is something between "individuals-only" and "communism". This was a sincere piece. I'd be fine if you want to publish it. I might want to review it and beef it up/clean it up a bit before you do. What is the length you can accept? I'll work on giving you a cleaned up version if you like. Happy to engage. I've done a lot of reading and thinking on the topic. Having a different opinion than you doesn't make me clueless.

I'd be happy to engage with you on the topic.

Eric’s Reply:
From: Eric Dondero
To: Howard Schwartz
Sent: Wed, August 11, 2010 2:40:02 PM
Subject: Re: Howard, Liberty is all about Individual Rights

Re-format it and edit to fit the format of my blog www.libertarianrepublican.net and send it along. I'd be glad to run it, without edits from me, so as to portray the cluelessness on libertarianism of the Left.

My reply

From: Howard Schwartz
Subject: Re: Howard, Liberty is all about Individual Rights
To: "Eric Dondero"
Date: Friday, August 13, 2010, 3:53 PM
Hi Eric,

Here is a version I cleaned up. Will this work or is it too long?
I want to do one final read but its pretty much ready to go

Howard Schwartz

Eric’s reply:
From: Eric Dondero
To: Howard Schwartz
Sent: Fri, August 13, 2010 8:22:31 AM
Subject: Re: Howard, Liberty is all about Individual Rights

Yes, this will work. I'll run it tomorrow. Would be helpful, and add to the piece if you could send me a jpg. or youself?


After I sent Eric a rather nice picture of myself I got this reply:

From: Eric Dondero
To: Howard Schwartz
Sent: Sat, August 14, 2010 5:46:52 AM
Subject: Re: Howard, Liberty is all about Individual Rights
Howard, this is going to suck. You're not going to be happy.

I woke up this morning and learned that our "President" (sic - the fucker wasn't even born here in the United States), has sided with Muslim Terrorists, and has come out in favor of allowing these Terrorists to build an Al Qaeda/Hamas linked Terrorist Training Center in southern Manhattan, two blocks away from Ground Zero.

You see like a nice guy. But I have decided not to publish your piece.

You Liberals/Leftsts are America's enemy. There's no mincing words, no soft-peddaling about it. You all Hate America, and want to see our Great Nation destroyed.

I could not live with myself, if I gave even one millimeter of space on my Pro-Liberty/Pro-America blog, to my enemy and an enemy of our Great Nation.

Sorry. I know you put some time in editing the piece for my site. And what I'm doing really sucks. And if you ever see me in person, I wouldn't blame you if you wanted to just punch me in the face, and kick me in the shins. You'd have that right.

But I've made my decision.

My reply
From: Howard Schwartz
Subject: Re: Howard, Liberty is all about Individual Rights
To: "Eric Dondero"
Date: Saturday, August 14, 2010, 6:08 PM
Hey Eric,

It’s your blog so of course you have to make the final judgment. I'm perfectly okay with your decision, a bit disappointed mainly because I would like to find a venue to have a real dialogue.

You and I both have strong feelings about our positions and commitments. That is really a good thing. Liberty (for better and worse) allows people to end up in positions that the other sides hate. That is what freedom of ideas is about. When I read the founding period such as 1787 Constitutional Convention and the debates between the Jeffersonians and the Federalists it seems this tension and emotion was there from the very beginning (maybe it is endemic to democracy?).

I'm disappointed only because I was hoping to find a way to talk meaningfully across the divide and you seem like someone who thinks deeply on the other side. May I blog about your email to me on my site as a way to talk about that dilemma?

Regarding your comments that
"You Liberals/Leftsts are America's enemy. There's no mincing words, no soft-peddaling about it. You all Hate America, and want to see our Great Nation destroyed. "

Me (Howard): That isn't true. At least I don't feel like an enemy of America. I love America but you and I have different visions of America. The question in my view is whether we can both have an America that we can live in, though we disagree. That is the interesting issue in democracy I think. I hope we can and that is the hope I have. Isn't there a way you can see me as a passionate person you can respect who has a different view and ultimately cares about America too?

Your comment:
I could not live with myself, if I gave even one millimeter of space on my Pro-Liberty/Pro-America blog, to my enemy and an enemy of our Great Nation.

Me (Howard): I understand if you don't want to publish my views in your blog. But how do we try to talk across our differences and come to understanding?

Your comment:
Sorry. I know you put some time in editing the piece for my site. And what I'm doing really sucks. And if you ever see me in person, I wouldn't blame you if you wanted to just punch me in the face, and kick me in the shins. You'd have that right.

Me (Howard) I am not angry at you for this. You at least reached out to me to "converse". I have no desire to punch or kick you...I would even shake your hand and ask if you'd like to have coffee and talk..... maybe someday?

Howard Schwartz
hsaccount@yahoo.com

Eric’s reply:
From: Eric Dondero
To: Howard Schwartz
Sent: Sat, August 14, 2010 11:22:47 AM
Subject: Re: Howard, Liberty is all about Individual Rights
Sure, you have my permission to say what you wish about this incident or my comments on your blog.

You seem like a decent guy, so it pains me to say this, I honestly believe there's absolutely no room at all for dialogue between liberals and libertarians/conservatives. You all are the enemy. There is very, very, very little that we can agree on.

Hell, I once thought liberals were good on marijuana, and abortion. But alas, you all want to tax marijuana once it's legalized, and even though you're pro-choice on abortion, you want government funding, plus to add insult to injury, you want by pro-life conservative friends to be forced to cover those abortions with their tax dollars.

So, even on the two issues that there might have been agreement between liberals and libertarians, there really isn't any.

No truce, no cease fire, no nice intellectual dialogues, not for me. You may find other libertarian/conservatives willing to do this, but not me. I have dedicated my entire life to the destruction of liberalism/socialism. And I will go to my death bed cursing you all to eternity.

Then Eric wrote me again:
Subject: Re: Howard, Liberty is all about Individual Rights
Yes, you may quote anything I said, but not as Anonymous. As Eric Dondero, Publisher, LibertarianRepublican.net

And most certainly do quote my comments about pro-life and marijuana.

I think we are dangerously close to Civil War in this country. Obama's actions yesterday with the GZ Mosque have royally pissed a lot of people off. This guy truly hates America. I mean there's no dancing around it any more for liberals. I'd have a lot more respect for your side if you just admitted that yes, our guy Obama, does really hate America, hates Americans, and wants to see this Nation destroyed.

Why is it so hard for your side to come clean on that? Just admit it for gosh darn's sake.

Again, the only "compromise" I see is through private property rights. You all set up a bunch of Kibutzes for your collectivist strategies, isolate yourselves, and leave the rest of us real Americans the hell alone.

Problem is liberals don't want to do that. They want to jam their communism down the throats of the rest of us.

My comment:
I plan to send Eric a response to this last comment. But let me post this exchange so far and pick up my response in my next blog after he gets an opportunity to see my response.